This is the first of many online discussions we will have over the course of Term 3 and our study of the novel. I will post 1-3 questions each week that you should discuss here, but do not be limited by them. If the discussion moves on that is fine, as long as it is related in some way to the general topic I am proposing. I may jump in the discussion once in a while if I think it needs any steering, but hopefully not too often.
This will be a significant grade for the term so be insightful, respectful and pithy (look it up). We will not be doing approach papers this term; this is taking their place. Therefore by the end of the term these posts could be worth up to 150 pts.
In terms of grading, it is somewhat subjective. I don't want to tie the grade to a number of comments , because quantity does not necessarily equal quality. In general though you should be commenting 2-3 times a week both to the prompt and, more importantly, to each other. Comments should not be of the "I-agree-with-what-he-said" variety. Feel free to post links to supporting pages or videos.
OK enough preamble, here is the first set of prompts:
- In the beginning of the book Lee is dealing a lot with the idea of insiders vs outsiders. Who and how?
- Look up satire and explain how it is used in the first couple chapters in relation to education. What do you think Lee's purpose is here?
- Cunningham and Ewell families are the same but different. Explain.
48 comments:
i think that the Cunningham and Ewell families are similar because they both have their own characteristics that make them not as accepted around town.
although both the cunningham's and the Ewell's aresimilar in that they are not highly viewed by the town they are more different than alike. The cunnungham's are not well respected due to their monotary status though they are consitered kind while the Ewell's arenot well respected due to their animalistic and crude mannerisms
Harper Lee uses satire to introduce new characters and their defining aspects, especially in the school setting, such as with Burris Ewell and Walter Cunningham. Using Scout's actions and somewhat humorous punishments, Lee, through Scout and the reactions of the characters in response to the various school situations, shows, introduces, and describes, among other things, the Ewell and Cunningham families. The Ewell's are the shame of the town - no etiquette, hygiene, or moral values. The Cunninghams are people who are poor, yet always try to pay people back in what ways they can, not borrowing what they can not fairly pay back.
it seems to me like the ewells are bad unrespected poor people because they realy fully on the towns generocity and goodwill to live, and their father is a drunk, while the cunninghams seem to be respectably poor, because they always pay back their debts and loans, and don't take what they can't return, and also work really hard, while the ewells are lazy
The Cunninghams are usually nicer than the Ewells because the Ewells are not nice due to Burris's drop out to school and for the Cunninghams, they help out the Finch's by chopping wood and giving it to them. Although they have some differences, the similarity is that they are poor. The reason is because they cannot afford luxurious stuff.
I think the diffrence between the Ewell and Cunninham's are that the cunnihams are respectful and loyal.When they say they will pay you back they do thy might not do it in miney but they will pay i other objest just like they did to Atticus. Also the cunninham's will not take anything they cannot pay back like the quarter at chool for a lunch. The Ewell family is a diffrent kind of familt. The Ewell's are disrespectful. They are disrespectful because the father is mosty drunk all the time and they do not respect the town people which in return means the town people have no respect for the Ewell family.
i completely disagree with chennie. borris' drop out of high school doesnt make him bad, and the cunninghams are not giving it, they are repaying. and not being able to afford luxeries is basicly the definition of anything but rich, not just poor
The Ewell and Cunningham families are similar but very different at the same time. Both of them have no money and find it hard to earn any. The difference though is that the Ewells can be mean and harsh to everyone they see. while the Cunninghams are poor but nice and they wont take what they cant pay back. If they need something thought they will repay the person with something that is needed like they did for atticus
I think these families are different because everyone knows the Cunninghams as just another quiet, poor family that lives in town. While as the Ewells are known for making trouble and disrespecting surroundings and/or people. To add on to that, Mr. Ewell is a drunk so 1) he doesnt look after his kids and 2) he could care less about what they do when theyre not home. Mr. Cunningham however, is a respectful and loyal man. he shows this by paying back Atticus numerous things when he was lended money from him.
...whoever put annon, great job.
I agree with everyone so far,. The Ewells seemed to be sterotyped as the good-for nothing poor family. They have a drunk dad and go to school once a year. They are not trying to make a difference with the life they live. While the Cunningham is trying to fit in as best they can with sociaty. For example, thier children go to school. Also, i think they are flying under the radar by not taking anything that cannot return that way people won't talk about them behind thier backs, more than they may already do.
The Ewell and Cunningham families are similar because they are both poor, but they are very different to. The Ewell family is rude, not clean, and disrespectful. The father is a drunk who doesn't care about his kids which raises them to be the same. For instance, Burris says mean things to the teacher as he is leaving school. He didn't even spend one full day at school and is done going to school for the rest of the year. The Ewell's are mean to people for no reason which is very rude and disrespectful. The Cunningham family on the other hand, are nice and they only take what they can pay back, even if it is not in money. They just want to fit into the society and be seen as normal. Since they pay back what they take, they are respected by people where as the Ewell's are the town shame. Walter Cunningham, for example, is not planning on dropping out of school and tries to be nice. When his teacher offers him a quarter for lunch, he didn't take it because he knew he would not be able to pay it back. He tries to be nice to the teacher which is the opposite of what Burris did.
i think that the key difference between the ewells and the cunninghams is their character. While the cunninghams are hard workers, the ewells just slack off.
The Cunninghams and Ewells are both similiar and different. They are similiar because neither family is greatly respected around town, and neither have very much money at all. But they are different because the Ewells are a careless family, whereas the Cunninghams are loyal, for example they paid back Atticus in every way they could after Atticus gave them money.
I agree that they are both similar. But, they are also really different (like everyone has been saying). The Ewells are not respected at all, they were even called a dissapointment of their town. They don't even attend school and have a very poorly functioning family. The Cunninghams are respected more, although they are poor, they are respectable people. They return everything they were ever loaned, and they don't like being loaned things because they know for them it would be difficult to pay back. Overall, I agree with the people who have already posted.
I agree that the Cunningham and Ewell families are similar, though they are different as well.
Cunninghams are people who “never took anything they can’t pay back.” (pg. 26) The Cunninghams do not have a lot of money, so they pay people back in different ways, such as with goods and firewood. They also try to keep clean. On page 25 it states that Walter Cunningham did not wear shoes, though he did wear a clean shirt and overalls.
Ewells are also less fortunate with money, but they are not as responsible in paying people back as the Cunninghams are. On page 36, Burris refused to stay when Miss Caroline stated that he should after she heard about his family. Burris left in anger and insulted Miss Caroline.
Cunninghams and Ewells are similar with their money issues at home and are known throughout the town to have certain traits. While Cunninghams always try to pay people back and keep clean, Ewells are irresponsible and do not try to clean themselves. Though, they both are part of the town and its gossip.
The Ewells and the Cunninghams are both similar because they are frowned upon for being "outcasts". The Cunninghams are poor, and the Ewells seem to have no moral values; the kids don't go to school and it is mentioned that the father is a drunk. However, they are different because the Cunninghams are more respectable. Though the Cunninghams cannot pay back many people with money, they do pay them back with other things as trade showing loyalty. On the other hand, the Ewllells are disrespectful. For example, on page 37 of the book, Burris calls the teacher a "snot nosed slut" which proves he is not only disrespectful, but also that he has no moral value.
I agree that the Ewell and Cunningham families are the same yet different. They are the same due to their financial status, which isn't very respectable, but that's about it. The Cunninghams try to be a decent family, who work hard to get by, while the Ewells are lazy and ungrateful.
I also think that although the Cunninghams and Ewels are both similar, the people of Maycomb seem to have more respect for the Cunninghams. The Ewels break the law and are rude to everyone. Even the "truant lady," who is supposed to track down Buris and get him back in school has given up. The Cunninghams follow the law and go to school. The reason why they are disrespected is because they can not always pay people back.
Besides the Cunninghams and ewells I think that Miss caroline the teacher from north Alabama is One of the outsiders And the students are the insiders because they are from maycomb. they come from different life styles.
I think that Scout is an outsider at first when he goes to school because he is unsure of what to expect. His brother and the rest of the kids who have been to school for the past couple years are the insiders. Miss Caroline is also an outsider because at school she has little knowledge of what the kids are like and how to deal with the situations.
to add to what brooks said i think boo radley and the blacks are both outsiders, and mr nathan.
While the Ewells' are happy getting by and "bending the law", the Cunninghams work hard. Despite this, people look down upon them because they cannot always pay others back, something they are not proud of.
scout is agirl abby
The outsiders in the begining of the book are the Radlys because nobody knows much about them and they are not close to anyone in Maycomb.The insiders in the book are the Finches because they have lived there for a long time and are close to a lot of people in the town.
The Ewells and Cunninghams have very little in common. They are both poor, and that's pretty much it. The Cunninghams are good people. They are a farming family, and the bad economy is making them poor. They dont have money, but they have very high morals. They pay everything back in whatever way they can, and the Ewells would never do that. The Cunninghams also dont take things they cant repay. When Atticus was their lawyer, they paid him with wood, nuts, holly and greens. Walter didnt accept the quarter because he knew he couldnt repay it. On the other hand, the Ewells are mean spirited people. They break the laws, and the people dont try to stop them. Burris doesnt go to school, and nobody tries to force him to go. The things he said to Miss. Caroline was intended to make her cry, and he didnt leave until he saw her crying.
I agree with Abby that Scout was an outsider since she was new. But, she was also an outsider because she was smart. The other kids were illiterate,and she was literate. She could read hard things to read, and also write. Nobody else could do either of these things which makes her different and an outsider.
In this book so far Lee describes an outsider as ether a person from another place and does not know the people in town or a pariah. I agree with Brooks and that one of the outsiders in this book is Miss Caroline. In Maycomb, all the locals know eachother. Miss Caroline came to Maycomb from Northern Alabama, which is described as a different place than Maycomb where everyone knows eachother. Therefore, she does not understand why Walter will not take her money and why Burris insults her and then leaves for the whole year. Lee Shows how confused she is by makeing her cry.
Another character that is an outsider is Boo Radley. He is viewed by the insiders (typical smalltown people such as the Finches) as a pariah. According to the insiders he only comes out at night and is dangerous. However, Lee hints that many of the rumors about him are not true.
The Radlys are the outsiders because people don't think that they are "normal" and they try to avoid them. As Drew mentioned, yes nobody knows much about them, but at the same time people do know some things about them. They know what they have heard through rumors and the little others do know about them. Also people are scared of them because of what they hear, causing them to not want to know things about them. The Finches are insiders because f their relationship with people in the town. They are well respected and know a lot of people.
As Nikki said, yes you could consider Scout to be an outsider. But, when an explanation was needed about Walter Cunningham, everyone looked to her to explain why he would not accept the money. They didnt look at any other student, which could also mean she was an insider because she knows about the town and the people in it.
Lee uses satire on the first day of school for scout. Shes uses satire by when the teacher tells her she has to undo the wrong that Atticus has done by teaching her to read and write. Then she says that Atticus cant teach her anymore. I think her purpose is to bring humor into the book.
One idea of insider and outsider that Harper Lee uses is when he introduces Stephanie Crawford and the Radley's. Miss Stephanie is the town gossip and would be considered an "insider".The Radley's seem to be her main subject and they are "outsiders". For example, on page 13, the narrator says, "According to Miss Stephanie, Boo (Radley) was sitting in the living room cutting papers... to paste in his scrapbook. His father entered the room... Boo drove the scissors into his parents legs." In another case, on page 14, Miss Stephanie claims that, "...some of the town council told Mr. Radley that if he didn't take Boo back, Boo would die of mold from the damp." Miss Stephanie Crawford has the scoop on everything while she picks on the Radleys.
I agree with Kat, Scout was both an outsider and an insider. I think the teacher looked at her as an outsider, but the rest of the class looked at her as though she was an insider.
I also think that the Radleys are outsiders because they mostly keep to themselves and on page 11 it says that on Sundays everyone goes to church and visit eachother, but the Radleys do not. Instead, they shut all of their doors and shutters and worship at home.
I think the only reason that Burris made his teacher cry was because that is probaly what his father does to him. Since his father is an alchoholic, most of the time he is drunk and he does not realize what he is doing. Therefore, he might make fun of Burris and abuse him.
I think that the difference between the Ewells and the Cunninghams is that the Cunninghams are much more respectful and they pay back people by doing things for them not paying them back with money.They Ewells are very disrespectful on the other hand and will not pay you back. They will take but not pay back.
I think that Scout felt as if she was an outsider, but she was both an insider and an outsider. I think this because when she finds that she is reading higher than expected she feels as if the teacher wants her to be a lower reader. This makes her feel as an outsider because not everyone is there and she doesnt want to be the kid thats far ahead. This shows when she asks Atticus to stop reading with her every night because she is ahead. Yet, she is an insider aswell because she knows the people of the town. By this shethe class looks to her to explain why walter could not accept her money.
I agree with KC that the Radleys are outsiders because they are very private people. The rest of the town are friendly and do not stay all compacted in their homes.
I think the Ewells and the Cunninghams are very similar. Both families are struggling with lack of money.
The families are both different because one family likes to keep their "honor" and repay the dept in any way they can. The Cunninghams, on
the other hand, are completely disrespectful. They do not work their butts off like the Ewells do. I think the Cunninghams are ignorant because they just follow what their father is. He is there main influential figure in the house.
I think Scout is a outsider especially in school with the teacher. But her family are insiders because most of the town knows and respects them, also they go to church on Sunday, unlike the Radley's which are outsiders who barely are part of the town.
In the beginning, it was the Radley's who were outsiders. Mostly Boo because no one has ever really SEEN him that could back up the information. Though Dill's idea to make Boo an INSIDER was mentioned by trying to get him out of the house, it has yet to happen. Dill, on the other hand, became an insider to the story as Jem invited him to hang out with him and his sister, Scout after realizing the 7 year old was alone at his aunts'. As Dill, the new insider, left for the school year, as Abby said, Scout became the outsider in school, confused in the beginning having to listen to Jem's lectures on why not to follow him. She did not know how to really handle anything because it was her first year.
The insiders and outsiders vary in these chapters. You have got Scout as an outsider being new to school & disobeying the teacher..basically she does not know what to expect there. There is Burris who is also an outsider..he is basically a bum. He is not well educated he is a absolute punk and does not have a good childhood/family life. He lives very different from others..acts it too. Another outsider(s) would definitly be the Radly's. They are probably the creepiest, strangest, people in Maycomb County. One of them creeps in on people, while their sleeping. And that family barely ever leaves the house. Boo leaves the house at midnight...whens its pitch black outside..and creeps. They remind me of the "Goth" family from Sims. The insiders would basically be all the children that were effected by the job losses. Seeing how it is not totally disrespected to be at that finacial level.
The teacher, Ms. Caroline is an outsider. The children and students are the insiders because they're from Maycomb. Scout is an outsider, also, because she hasn't gone to school before this. This reminded me of when I went to camp in California when I was seven and I didn't know anyone so I followed my big brother around, until he told the counselor I was annoying him and I had no friends...
I agree with Carly, Miss Stephanie would definatly be considered an insider because she knows everything about the town, even if the stuff is not true she knows it anyways because it is the gossip/rumors going around. I think that Miss Caroline would be an outsider because she can not really relate to the kids and she thinks so poorly of them. She does not understand that some kids learn at different levels and others are having finacial troubles.
That anonymous right above was me, it wouldnt let me publish my name...French.
i also agree that scout is a outsider because of her learning skills at school and her ways of thinking are much more creative then her family.
i think the insider is Dill in ch.1 because at first he acts like a know it all to Jem and his sister, but then jem invited Dill to hangout with them. And ch. 2-5 i think the outsider is the teacher because her learning/ teaching the children is different from what there use too. Scout was also kind of an outsider because her learning style/ her adventerous (?) thinking was different from everyone elses.
The insiders in the first chapter are Scout and her family and neighbors, because they are normal families for the time. The outsiders are the Radleys, obviously, because they are a weird family, especially Boo, who basically stays home all his life and stabs his father with scissors.
i think that the Radley's are outsiders because no one in Maycomb knows what to think of them. i also think scout is an outsider because she doesnt know what to expect in school and that she is a smart kid who stands out and this makes her different than everyone else
i think the radley's are outsiders because they are cut off from the rest of the town and the rest of the town are insiders for all we know so far
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